Tribe of Hackers Red Team 5.0

Learning from the red team expert Carlos Perez

Blog Tribe of Hackers Red Team 5.0

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This post is the fifth in a series based on the book Tribe of Hackers Red Team by Carey and Jin (2019). As I mentioned in the first entry, in this book, we find the answers of 47 red teaming experts to the same 21 questions. In the previous posts, I referred to the opinions of (1.0) Carey, (2.0) Donnelly, (3.0) Weidman, and (4.0) Secor. For this occasion, I decided to focus on the answers of Carlos Perez (Darkoperator), the first Latin American included in the series, who has been active in cybersecurity for more than twenty years.

Carlos worked for the government of Puerto Rico, performing pentesting and helping to secure their networks. Later, he joined Compaq/HP "as a senior solution architect for the security and networking consulting practices" for clients in South and Central America and the Caribbean. He also worked at Tenable as director of reverse engineering and, at the time of the book’s interview, was the practice leader for research at TrustedSec. Currently, Carlos is known for his contributions to open source security tools such as DNSRecon and Metasploit.

For those hoping to be eager beavers on red teams

Carlos begins by recommending specific knowledge, divided into technical and non-technical, which he believes is necessary for those who want to be part of a red team. On the technical side, he starts with "A solid base in programming logic," an essential knowledge for the proper adaptation to diverse scripting languages as well as for the production and alteration of tools. Then, Carlos suggests a good understanding of networks because, he says, most actions will cross this type of environment. Besides, "You will need to understand how systems are configured, maintained, and secured." And you should keep a method of constant practice and learning, always aiming to avoid any technical bias.

On the non-technical side, Carlos begins by emphasizing the significance of knowledge about an organization’s structures, communication, and teamwork. Precisely, regarding the act of expressing ideas, he recognizes that many in the field are introverts. However, without mincing words, Carlos warns: "if you are not able to convey the risks, mitigation, and supporting information in a manner that decision-makers can use and comprehend, then you have failed." Finally, he adds the importance of learning about new trends and best practices in the IT industry (sometimes ignored by practitioners), for example, Cloud and DevOps.

Like other experts whose views have been presented in this series, Carlos reminds us that it is unnecessary to engage in illegal activities to gain red team skills. "Information, training, and reference material to learn all aspects of it are available publicly, and all can be simulated in a lab environment to test and validate concepts." Don't make the stupid mistake of playing the bad boy/girl when you can probably learn the same skills in the process of becoming an ethical hacker, being an ethical hacker.

For those already sweating blood on red teams

Let’s start with teamwork. According to Carlos, each member of the red team should have a clear understanding of the client and systems to be evaluated. Planning should be carried out precisely as a group. All members can share their opinions from the beginning, and the team can discuss them with the intention of reaching agreements. As the project progresses, regular meetings should be held to review actions. At the end of an engagement, "a debrief should be done where egos are left outside and people are honest about what needs improvement."

Get started with Fluid Attacks' Red Teaming solution right now

For Carlos, it is false to say that new techniques and exploits need to be kept secret, even from clients, to avoid losing advantages in other engagements. Red teaming is not simply about emulation but also involves cultivating a relationship with the customer, where critical thinking can help manage potential risks and improve cybersecurity.

When, for example, in a pentesting or attack simulation exercise, the client's security teams succeed to catch you, keep in mind something that Carlos shares from his experience: It may not necessarily be a negative thing with your work and your capabilities; it may be that on the client-side, they have already learned from previous engagements and have applied the required measures. Following his words, you can remind yourself that your task is to help them test their security and make their systems more secure.


Carlos's original picture was taken from the referenced book.

For firms that in security aspire to be on the ball

Regarding the question of when to introduce a red team into an organization’s security program, Carlos replies (in terms of conditions): "[In that organization] There has to be a culture of involving security at the start of a process, when it makes sense to have it, and a willingness to hear alternate critical ideas of plans when presented." It must be a firm that recognizes the necessity and is willing to have its projects and systems under evaluation to identify weaknesses and vulnerabilities in them. But not only that, according to Carlos, the organization must be prepared to take on efforts to eliminate and mitigate the risks reported by the red team.

Carlos' judgment is pretty valuable when he suggests that it’s better not to implement a red team’s services within a company, at least not at that moment, when their security team is somewhat isolated from the general decision-making processes. Moreover, for him, it’s not a good idea to convene the red teams when, rather than a partnership, what there is between that company’s groups is just competition and conflict.

On the other hand, Carlos warns companies interested in their security to beware of, from his perspective, the "least bang-for-your-buck security control" that in many places can be seen implemented. He refers to tools without metrics, objectives, and training adjusted to the client company’s particularities, which end up only "providing a placebo effect for those who signed the check."

Additionally, Carlos mentions an easy and straightforward security control that a firm can implement now that phishing and malware are so widely employed to compromise networks or systems. It’s a matter of addressing the most common entry routes first. "Most companies do not block or control the execution of HTA, Windows Scripting Host, or Office macros," says the expert. After blocking entry routes, the security team can begin to profile typical behavior within the environment to build an automatic detection system for abnormal behavior.

That's all, folks!

Don't forget that you can access the full interview with Carlos Perez in Carey and Jin's book. By the way, keep in mind that if you want to be part of the Fluid Attacks' red team, you can check out our Careers page. And if you need information about our services and solutions for your organization, you can click here to contact us.

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